Now I know why nobody dares mention the holocaust debate. I've never seen such a swarm of comments and emails. Like Coleridge's ancient mariner, these people all seem to have a tale to tell. If you're in a hurry to a wedding, don't stop to listen to them. (If you're a history buff, though, you'll find plenty of food for thought.)
So let's move on. May 15th, Nakba Day, is only a few weeks away. The holocaust it commemorates, the annihilation of Palestine, is still happening. That's the holocaust I'm most concerned with, not just because our taxes are paying for it, but because it threatens to engulf the whole world. As the press release for Alan Hart's new book puts it:
"This is the second volume in the series, ZIONISM: The Real Enemy of the Jews, the inside, true story, monumental and moving, of Zionism’s colonial enterprise and the conflict it provoked in and over Palestine that became Israel; a conflict which shows no sign of ending and contains, some fear, the seeds of a doomsday catastrophe for the region and possibly the whole world."
My Nakba Day radio guest will be Gordon Duff, publisher of Veterans Today. Duff has published all kinds of great 9/11 truth stuff, including articles by David Ray Griffin; broke the story of the underwear bomber's many Mossad connections; and his most recent piece is a trenchant warning of another Israeli "attack on America," based on leaks from extremely highly-placed sources, or so he tells me. Duff is one of those experienced analysts, along with Alan Hart (at the end of my interview with him), Alan Sabrosky, Jeff Gates, and Michael Andregg, who explicitly or implicitly point the finger at the Israeli Mossad as the main 9/11 culprit. Two other well-placed sources, ex-CIA analysts Ray McGovern and Bill Christison, seem to be saying pretty much the same thing in so many words. When you consider the evidence (including the material in Bollyn's book), then ask who had a motive worthy of such a huge gamble (Zionism has no future without the US at war with Israel's enemies), who gained (by a permanent war on Islam and Muslims), and who covered it up (starting with the Zionist-dominated mainstream AND pseudo-alternative media) it's hard to avoid the conclusion that these folks are right.
Anyway, here are my parting shots, for a good long while, on the holocaust debate: My own email about why I chose to host it, and Roberto Muehlenkamp's original response after doing the show.
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Shakespeare & Cervantes meet holocaust revisionism
by Kevin Barrett, 4/23/2010
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
On this day in history, 394 years ago -- on April 23rd, 1616 to be exact -- the two greatest European writers of all time shuffled off this mortal coil. Both were famous for sidestepping or deflating the sacred narratives and windy generalities that often pass for wisdom, instead taking a tough but sympathetic look at the actual human condition.
The story of the Nazi Holocaust has become a sacred narrative underpinning a self-congratulatory American-Zionist narrative of World War II and its aftermath. Like other foundation myths (including Zelikow's pre-scripted events of 9/11/01), the Holocaust separates time into a "before" and an "after," justifying the "whole new world" created by the foundational event. For Americans, the "whole new world" is one in which the ultimate evil of the Nazis shows why the US must build the world's biggest military and remain perpetually at war; for the Zionists, it is a "whole new world" in which poor little Israel, endlessly threatened with annihilation, must use every available means, including mass murder and big lies, to preserve itself.
More than any other single story, the Holocaust is the foundation of the Zio-American empire's war against the world. It is the foundation of both the Palestinian holocaust, the Nakba, and the US military/CIA murder of millions that William Blum calls the American Holocaust. Thus, if we are to end these holocausts, the original Holocaust story needs to be ripped out of its sacred setting and returned to ordinary, secular history. To achieve this, we must overcome the fear, horror and awe that has been drummed into us by the media and talk about the Nazi holocaust calmly, empirically, historically. Such fearless talk, whatever conclusions it may or may not reach, will help transfer the Holocaust story from the sacred to the secular sphere--a major step toward ending the ongoing genocides that are explicitly or implicitly justified by its sacredness. It will help U.S. Americans realize that the holocausts THEY committed and are still committing, whose body counts of tens of millions are protected by no laws and enshrined by few museums and whose "righteous victims" are unfinanced by reparations, are the ones that should get most of their attention...in order that the real lesson of all holocausts, "never again," can finally be achieved.
That's why, on today's Truth Jihad Radio, I'm shattering the taboo on discussing holocaust revisionism. I hope you'll agree that I'm doing it in the kind of fair and open-minded way that would be helpful to those who, like me, are new to the issue -- and to those who are not who can set aside their emotional prejudices and reflexive use of ad-hominems, and listen to three guests' well-informed yet wildly different perspectives on this fascinating and deeply repressed issue.
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Roberto Muehlenkamp's response, sent the day after the show:
Thank you too, Kevin. Your moderation was even-handed and your questions were very good.
Unfortunately the time was too short to address all the claims made by Mr. "Dalton" during the first hour. Therefore, and as you seem to have a genuine interest in the subject, I sent you some links via Skype for further information.
The first link, http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2009/05/old-herrings-in-new-can-thomas-daltons.html , contains my overall assessment of the author's agenda based on the two chapters of his book that are available online. As I said during the interview, I don't think that Mr. "Dalton" entered as a neutral observer and came out as a "Revisionist". He was a "Revisionist" from the start and inevitably reached the conclusions predetermined by his "Revisionist" position. Reading further into his book during the weekend only reinforced this assessment.
The second link, http://rodohforum.yuku.com/topic/2475, contains my translation of the Korherr Report, a 1943 progress report on the "Final Solution of the Jewish Question" prepared by Himmler's own statistician Richard Korherr, which is not even mentioned in "Debating the Holocaust". Korherr's postwar claims that he didn't know what he was writing about are addressed in my blog under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2007/04/richard-i-didnt-know-korherr.html .
The first postwar demographic assessments pointing to a Jewish population loss in the order of 6 million, which I also mentioned, can be found under http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlestop/study_collections/nuremberg/documents/index.php?documentdate=1945-06-00&documentid=C107-6-1&studycollectionid=&pagenumber=1 and http://avalon.law.yale.edu/subject_menus/angtoc.asp . Unless there is something in parts of DTH that I haven't read yet, "Dalton" ignored both of these assessments. (Population loss doesn't mean that all were murdered, of course. In the Soviet Union, for instance, there were about 300,000 Jews who died in the ranks of the Red Army or as civilians due to war-related causes.)
Goebbels' diary entry of 13 December 1941 regarding Hitler's meeting with the highest party officials on 12 December 1941 is quoted in an article by German historian Christian Gerlach that is transcribed under http://rodohforum.yuku.com/topic/2556 . Gerlach's translation of this entry is the following:
Regarding the Jewish question, the Fuhrer is determined to clear the table. He warned
the Jews that if they were to cause another world war, it would lead to their own destruction.
Those were not empty words. Now the world war has come. The destruction of
the Jews must be its necessary consequence. We cannot be sentimental about it. It is
not for us to feel sympathy for the Jews.We should have sympathy rather with our own
German people. If the German people have to sacrifice 160,000 victims in yet another
campaign in the east, then those responsible for this bloody conflict will have to pay
for it with their lives.
The same article also contains a partial translation of what Hans Frank, the governor of the Polish territories occupied by Germany, said in his speech of 16 December 1942:
As for the Jews, well, I can tell you quite frankly that one way or another we have to
put an end to them. The Fuhrer once put it this way: if the combined forces of Judaism
should again succeed in unleashing a world war, that would mean the end of the Jews
in Europe. . . . I urge you: Stand together with me . . . on this idea at least: Save your
sympathy for the German people alone. Dont waste it on anyone else in the world, . . .
As a veteran National Socialist I also have to say this: if the Jews in Europe should
survive this war, . . . then the war would be only a partial success. As far as the Jews
are concerned, I would therefore be guided by the basic expectation that they are going
to disappear. They have to be gotten rid of. At present I am involved in discussions
aimed at having them moved away to the east. In January there is going to be an important
meeting in Berlin to discuss this question. I am going to send State Secretary Dr.
Buhler to this meeting. It is scheduled to take place in the offices of the RSHA in
the presence of Obergruppenfuhrer Heydrich. Whatever its outcome, a great Jewish
emigration will commence.
But what is going to happen to these Jews? Do you imagine there will be settlement
villages for them in the Ostland? In Berlin we were told: Why are you making all this
trouble for us? There is nothing we can do with them here in the Ostland or in the
Reich Commissariat. Liquidate them yourselves! . . . For us too the Jews are incredibly
destructive eaters. . . . Here are 3.5 million Jews that we cant shoot, we cant poison.
But there are some things we can do, and one way or another these measures will successfully
lead to a liquidation. They are related to the measures under discussion with
the Reich. . . . Where and how this will all take place will be a matter for offices that
we will have to establish and operate here. I will report to you on their operation at the
In a blog under http://www.inconvenienthistory.com/archive/2010/volume_2/number_1/goebbels_on_the_jews.php, Mr. "Dalton" quoted only this part of Frank's speech:
What is to happen to the Jews [after evacuation]? … We have in the General Government an estimated 2.5 million Jews—perhaps with those closely related to Jews and what goes with it, now 3.5 million Jews. We can’t shoot these 3.5 million Jews, we can’t poison them…
and argued that Frank was "obviously" unaware of any program of genocide. As I said in the interview, he left out the interesting parts.
Gerlach's article further contains a translation of the passage from the protocol of the Wannsee Conference on 20 January 1942 that I mentioned in the interview:
In the course of the final solution, the Jews should be brought in an appropriate manner
and under appropriate direction to work in the east. In large detachments, with the sexes
separated, the Jews who are able to work will construct roads in these regions. It is to
be expected that a sizable number will disappear due to natural causes.
The Jews who survive, however many there may be, will no doubt be the hardiest. They
will have to be treated accordingly. Otherwise these select few, should they escape, could
form the basis for a new Jewish line of descent. (See the experience of history.)
Regarding Goebbels' diary entry of 27 March 1942 I sent you the link http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2010/04/goebbels-on-liquidation.html , which links to a German clip about the Soviet Katyn massacre in which "liquidated" is also used in an unequivocally homicidal sense.
Regarding mobile killing operations by Einsatzgruppen and other units, I sent you the permalink http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2006/04/quick-links.html#whydenial, which leads to several articles discussing related issues including the accuracy of the Einsatzgruppen reports as concerns the numbers they reported. Also of interest in this context, as concerns the matching of Soviet reports with evidence independent of the Soviets, are the blogs http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2006/05/mass-graves-in-polesie.html and http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2006/07/neither-soviets-nor-poles-have-found.html .
I further sent you these links regarding physical evidence at the extermination camps Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka:
You may want to compare the translation from examining judge Lukakskiewicz' site investigation report of 13.11.1945 in the last of these blogs with the parts thereof that are quoted on page 118 of DTH. You will find that "Dalton" again left out the interesting parts.
The permalink leads to my long discussion with Carlo Mattogno about the Belzec mass graves and the logistical and issues of body disposal at Belzec. Needless to say, the conclusions reached there also apply to the Sobibor and Treblinka, and to Chelmno as well. Carlo Mattogno is arguably the most capable "Revisionist" writer, which is why rebutting him is one of our priorities at HC. Mr. "Dalton" is not so important as he essentially draws on the arguments of Mattogno and other "Revisionists". However, his somewhat-less-than-accurate references to some of my articles in DTH come in handy for a summary of the conclusions as concerns burial capacity and burning of corpses that I reached in my discussion with Mattogno.
We write a lot about mass graves on HC. If you click the label "graves" at the bottom of any of the articles under the above three links, you'll find all of our work that has been labeled accordingly under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/search/label/graves .
The Hungarian Jews murdered at Auschwitz-Birkenau in the summer of 1944, another issue that Mr. "Dalton" talked about yesterday, are the subject of the blog http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2009/12/number-of-hungarian-jews-gassed-in.html . I haven't yet looked at the arguments regarding logistical feasibility in DTH, but logistical feasibility is addressed in the 1993 edition of Jean-Claude Pressac's Les Crematoires d'Auschwitz, of which I have the Portuguese translation. Pressac concludes that the SS at Auschwitz-Birkenau could within 70 days kill and dispose of up to 300,000 persons, using at four liquidation sites eight teams of Sonderkommando, four working during the day and four working at night, with a total of one thousand workers. Recent research shows that the number of Hungarian Jews killed at AB was closer to 300,000 than to 400,000, and they didn't have to gas and burn them all on the day of arrival because they had the holding camp known as "Mexiko" for keeping arrivals meant for the gas chambers until the existing capacities made it possible to "process" them. Mr. "Dalton"'s argument that Auschwitz-Birkenau killed below capacity before the summer of 1944 is defensible but irrelevant - after all the Nazis couldn't kill people at Auschwitz-Birkenau any faster than they managed to get them there, and organizing and carrying out the transports from various European countries, rather than the killing itself, was their big problem. Under http://rodohforum.yuku.com/topic/2541 you'll find a long list of transports to Auschwitz-Birkenau, put together by my fellow blogger Dr. Nick Terry, a British historian.
The diesel issue that Mr. "Dalton" mentioned at the end of his hour is addressed in the blog http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2006/06/why-diesel-issue-is-irrelevant.html, which I also sent you per skye and which contains a discussion about this issue in the comments section between Mr. "Dalton" and me. The corpse discoloration issue, which is not as linear as Mr. "Dalton" presented it in his interview (even with gasoline exhaust the people in the gas chambers may simply have suffocated from lack of oxygen before they could die of carbon monoxide poisoning, which would explain the "blue" color mentioned by some eyewitnesses, the pink-red discoloration of fatal carbon monoxide poisoning only shows some time after death and thus not necessarily when eyewitnesses observed the corpses inside the gas chambers, and it doesn't occur at all or not very prominently when people are suffering from anemia or other conditions induced by malnutrition) have been amply discussed on the RODOH forum, last on the thead http://rodohforum.yuku.com/topic/10392?page=4 starting with my post http://rodohforum.yuku.com/reply/240673/t/DEMJANJUK-Scapegoat-for-Jewish-Madness.html#reply-240673. On that thread you'll have the pleasure of meeting one of the "Revisionists" eulogized by "Dalton" as writers of "serious, dedicated works", Mr. Friedrich Paul Berg.
One of the issues that interests me most is the one that you brought up right at the beginning of your interview with Mr. "Dalton", that of non-Jewish victims of Nazi mass murder. I have written several articles about this comparatively unknown issue, which you can reach under the link http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/search/label/non-Jewish%20victims. You may be particularly interested in my articles about the 5-million-figure, which you find under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2008/04/5-million-non-jewish-victims.html and http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2008/04/5-million-non-jewish-victims-part-2.html .
I hope you'll get something out of our articles. For any questions you may have please feel free to contact me.
All the best,